31/10/2021 at 4:14 pm #6880Raya MParticipant
Dear fellow men and women.
I am starting this new thread on superannuation. The question has been asked before
Whether once can withdraw and use their superannuation. Muki has advised that this should be the case, as Super is not a benefit, it’s an entitlement that we have paid for. However Muki has also said that such a scenario has yet to be seen or tested , as they were the first to re-convey. This answer came back in July.
My questions are as follows.
1. Has anything changed since July and have there been any successful cases of people getting their Super after reconveying?
2. Is it more desirable to move super into a private trust SMSF first and then afterwards reconvey. One of the newly joined CASA members, Nicole, has a tax background and she has advised that she is doing this and once she reconveys, will take her private smsf trust with her.
Although Muki had quoted Judge Anna , that trusts are a fraud themselves and belong firmly under the jurisdiction of land pirates- would it not be strategically wise to establish one anyway for the sake of taking control of your super via a trust, then take this with you when you reconvey?
3. What is the simplest and easiest solution, form an SMSF trust first, then reconvey it or reconvey first and then attempt to direct your superfund to return the money to you ? Which method will strategically put you in a better position to access these funds/ assets in the easiest manner?
Any feedback from anyone who has attempted to do this or has a financial background would be much appreciated.
- This topic was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by Mumprenuer.
31/10/2021 at 8:24 pm #6884judgieKeymaster
earned-or-unearned By Anna Von Reitz
I get all sorts of distressed messages from Senior Citizens worried that if they exercise their right to declare their proper political status as Americans, they will lose Social Security payments or Military pensions or Military health care services.
There are a number of key questions only you can answer, and the primary question is — were your particular retirement payments earned by you or by your spouse (or in some cases your parent) — or are they “unearned” welfare benefits?
To qualify for earned benefits under the Social Security program, someone has to have worked and contributed to the Federal Pension Plan for forty quarters — a period of ten years — after which, they became “vested” in the program and have a legal claim against the program and against the “governmental services corporation” sponsoring it.
If you (or your spouse) didn’t work and contributed to Social Security for at least ten years, you are not vested in the program and any payments you receive are welfare “benefits”.
The difference between “earned program dividends” and “benefits” is crucial for one reason — if you or your spouse (or parent) vested in the system and earned the payments and services you are receiving, this represents a Priority Obligation of the corporation in back of all this. If, however, nobody actually paid in for the required ten years, and you are receiving Social Security as welfare benefits —- “benefits” are a gift; and, the corporation isn’t obligated to pay out gifts. It can stop doing so at any time and you have no recourse.
So the first thing to determine is — are your payments earned or unearned?
If they are earned the rats are on the hook for it, and you need to inform them that your “program receipts” are not welfare “benefits” — they are earned program dividends and you object to their attempt to mischaracterize them as welfare. You (or your spouse or your parent) earned every penny of funds and services you receive.
You can live anywhere and adopt any political status you please and the corporation is still on the hook for it.
If they are not earned, you are a Federal Welfare Recipient, and you are stuck maintaining “US Citizenship” as a result. You are also advised that such “benefits” can stop at any time for any reason, because they are essentially gifts that are made without obligation, similar to promises to provide “Equal Civil Rights” to “US Citizens”.
What the foreign corporations provide, the foreign corporations can take away— except when it is a contractual commercial obligation.
So— are your Social Security payments earned or unearned?
Same thing with Military Pensions and Services, though it is a given that you “earned” at least part of anything you receive by virtue of your military service, there may be some aspects of what you receive that have been added on as “gifts” — and those extras might disappear at any time for the same reasons outlined above.
All basic military and dependent pensions and services are earned by definition and you should never allow a bureaucrat to mischaracterize the funds or the services as “benefits”—- which implies “welfare benefits”.
You earned more than they can ever pay you, and certainly more than you are getting, so don’t be shy about it. If there is any question about whether a particular payment or service is earned or a “gift” — ask.
Generally speaking, if there are any limitations or eligibility requirements, it is an “earned” payment or service. Such limitations or eligibility requirements might include Honorable Discharge, service in a particular theater of action, or service during a particular time period, or length of service, and so on.
Unearned “gifts” amounting to welfare have to be generally available without restriction to all members of a population, so if you are not “charged” anything in terms of service requirements or funds, and everyone is eligible for it, its a gift.
In recent years, some pharmaceutical companies have provided certain drugs to the military for free and the military has passed these on to patients for free. This is not exactly typical, but it is common enough so that if you are in receipt of “free” drugs that are not part of the standard military program, you may be receiving these drugs as a welfare benefit or gift from the pharmaceutical companies.
That does not enable the military to claim that your program receipts are “benefits” overall and the removal of such “benefits” would be limited to loss of access to those drugs for free via military subcontractors.
You can regain access to the same drugs, same deal, same pharmaceutical companies, via a private physician– so that this should not in any way endanger your claim to earned pensions and service-related medical care.
It’s just something to be aware of, in case the Vermin among us attempt to mischaracterize your military pension and medical services as “benefits” in general, and you need to pull rank and address these specious claims based on your receipt of gifts from pharmaceutical companies or similar emoluments.
My point is that your basic military pension and service-related medical services remain in the “earned” category and remain owed and stand as an obligation of the governmental services corporations, regardless of whether or not you receive any sidebar “gifts” in addition.
Finally, and this is key to remember — all such “Federal” retirement programs are being delivered by large corporations, so that your pensions are actually not being delivered by any government directly. This means that all the same principles apply to such pensions as to, for example, a pension from General Electric, Inc. or Ford Motor Company, Inc.
They continue to owe you earned pension funds and services no matter what political status you adopt and no matter where you choose to live on Earth.
10/12/2021 at 5:14 pm #8045
This issue of seizing control of your superannuation fund is something that I am dealing with at the moment. I am in the process of reconveying my wife and I. After that is completed I plan to reconvey our super. I currently have a SMSF with precious metal assets. The snag is I can’t find any info on how to actually go about reconveying a SMSF. We have a corporate Trustee. The directors are also the beneficiaries. The snag is Trustee doesn’t own the assets otherwise I would just reconvey the corporate trustee which is a pty ltd company and bring the assets with it. I did have a thought that if the ultimate owners of the assets are the beneficiaries, then, if they are reconveyed the assets should come with them (this is an assumption- I don’t really know). Anyway, that’s where I am it with this. I am very interested how Nicole plans to deal with this. I know this has been broached with Muki before, but I think this is an issue that is near and dear to a lot of people so it would be good to get some solid advice on how to resolve this. In the meantime I will keep digging.
10/12/2021 at 9:40 pm #8046seanParticipant
If previously help a PR who left Australia get their super.
When people have reconveyed they have “left Australia” so it might be as simple as providing the correct paper work.
Currently you apply to ATO for a DASP Departing Australia Super Payment. I’d be interested to know if anyone has tried this approach.
14/12/2021 at 1:34 pm #8051Raya MParticipant
I have applied for an smsf now and will invest the funds as soon as they come in in something other than fiat. However once it comes to reconveying, all of this will be trial and error. A few of us are in the middle of the process of organising our finances so we are updating each other as we go. Any insights from your end will be much appreciated.
13/07/2022 at 4:16 pm #11377
Just thought I would throw this out there as an idea.
I have a SMSF of which my wife and I are the beneficiaries as well as the Trustee (corporate Trustee as a Pty Ltd company).
We are reconveying, but I want to bring the assets of the SMSF (precious metals) with us when we reconvey. I was thinking that the docs that we send to all the respondents as part of reconveying, I will send a copy to the Trustee of the SMSF *(which is effect my wife and I). The Trustee would get the 30 days to rebut followed up by the Notice.
29/08/2022 at 4:47 pm #12101mukidasModerator
That, along with the fact that you’re addressing both Treasury’s anyway, you may as well ad that information to your Treasury documentation also.
29/08/2022 at 4:51 pm #12102
Done. All documents being sent tomorrow. It’s been a long road, but can’t wait to be back on land.
27/09/2022 at 4:58 pm #12463MelissaParticipant
HI Adam, how did this go with the SMSF?
27/09/2022 at 5:59 pm #12465
Have sent all the documents. I did everything that I posted about above. Just waiting the 30 days to send out final notices to respondents. No doubt I will start getting mail about the digital id for company directors, but the mail will be misaddressed, so return to sender.something additional that I am going to do is send final notices to ASIC and the ATO along with a copy of the docs I sent to the treasurer (the Principal). the ATO and ASIC weren’t on the original list of respondents, but the federal treasurer was, whom is the principal. the reason I am doing that is to make absolutely sure that they as the agents are aware of what I sent to the principal and because I have current dealings with the ATO for tax and ASIC for the SMSF. I also now have full control of all SMSF assets. I have also terminated my accountant as they were managing tax and compliance, plus it was too difficult to explain what I was doing and didn’t want to drag them into the middle of any interaction with the corporation. Another tip if you are going to do what I did, get all compliance and tax returns done and then reconvey, so you have 12 months before they contact you again. By then you are well and truly out of their clutches. Hopefully that make sense.
29/09/2022 at 10:14 pm #12489
Hey Adam, why did you go with the Corporate SMSF and not the individual SMSF?
26/09/2022 at 8:47 pm #12460
Hi, how has everyone gone with their SMSFs? We are about to start our own, and buy land with it, but it would be great to be able to be the beneficiary of it, once we reconvene too. Super interested in where you have all gotten with your’s. Blessings, Shell
27/09/2022 at 6:08 pm #12466
See my last post. As everyone situation is very different, so will the strategies be different. Just something to be aware of, if you buy land, then you will need to reconvey that as well, in which case the SMSF is irrelevant. Also, depending on how close to retirement you are, you may need to rely on money from a land investment to survive financially. When (not if) the global markets collapse, land price will take a big hit. If you are not planning to sell but live on the land, then it’s not such a big deal. Again, I hope that make sense. It always makes better sense in my head.
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